Eleven Fla Counties forbid teaching of Evolution

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by futurebeachbum, Jan 12, 2008.

  1. Bdarg

    Bdarg Beach Fanatic

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    My best philosophy professors were that ones who had way more questions than answers. The ones that had all of the answers were not only rare but made the worst philosophy professors IMO. I always looked at philosophy as the study of possibilities for things unknown.
     
  2. NoHall

    NoHall hmmmm......can't remember

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    I keep swearing that I won't even LOOK at this thread any more.

    :trainwreck:

    I've already said this, but I'll say it again: I (and I'm a born-again, Southern Baptist by birth, Calvinist by preordination, Bible-totin' Christian) agree wholeheartedly that ID falls under the category of Metaphysics, which is a branch of PHILOSOPHY, not physical science.

    I am currently a candidate for a Master of Arts in Teaching at a fully accredited college, which means I take a whole buttload of education classes with a buttload of teachers. So far, I have yet to meet a teacher in those classes who wasn't raised in a church in the Bible belt (statistically, probably Southern Baptist) and who doesn't believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Intelligent Design. I have also yet to meet one that disagrees with teaching evolution. Just last night one of these teachers told about taking her son to Fernbank, where he read something about evolution on one of the displays. Apparently, that had not been covered in his science class so far, so this mother (CHRISTIAN mother) taught him about it herself. Natural selection and adaptation has been evidenced and verified over and over, and I don't know a single Christian teacher who cares to dispute it.

    I mentioned this debate in class last night, and the 10 students (all of us were Christians, and most of us raised Southern Baptist) and my professor (an elementary school principal and big shot expert in critical thinking) all said the exact same things you're saying: A good teacher teaches the facts first. S/he also teaches ALL of the scientific theories and teaches the students to think critically about ALL of them. Teach evolution, but bring up the missing link which is still missing. Bible stories (or Native American, or whatever) are best put in the context of a history class or comparative religion, but if they come up in science class, look at them SCIENTIFICALLY and have the parents teach religion.

    Absolutely NONE of my colleagues wanted anyone teaching their child about Christianity in a public school.

    The only place where I know that ID is actually taught are in private Christian schools. However, I know dozens--scores!--of highly intelligent educators who believe that the universe was intelligently designed.

    I have my dander up over this thread because it seems to be the common belief on SoWal.com that all Christians believe the same way that the agenda-pushers believe.

    They don't. We don't. I don't.

    The faith I embrace is about love, abundant life, freedom, and truth. I was taught to love God with all my heart, soul, MIND, and strength, and nothing that can be proved in the physical world is going to run contrary to that. If it turns out that we did, in fact, descend from the apes, it won't harm my faith. I pity the Christians that believe they are not allowed to ask questions or to function in the physical world.
     
  3. InletBchDweller

    InletBchDweller SoWal Insider

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    Toots,
    I pulled out my Teaching Children Science that i still have from college!:yikes:

    Granted it is a very general book. I saw nothing of ID in it. The BIG BANG was mentioned and Evolution was listed at a type of Biology. That is all.
    I did teach 8th grade science for one semester but this was not in the subject matter for that time of year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  4. InletBchDweller

    InletBchDweller SoWal Insider

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    NoHall, very well said. :clap:Thank you for doing so. I know many people dont post their feelings on controversial threads on this board b/c they dont want someone not to like them, or they may disagree with a fellow wench, or they just dont like controversy. I used to read and not post on certain threads but I now feel that my thoughts are just as important even if others dont agree.

    I also believe that some people think that b/c you are a Christian then you are the ultra agenda pushers. Just like if you are a Republican then you simply must be a "right wing nutjob or evil conservative" or a Democrat you are a "far left liberal" :lol: I think many of us are just a good combo of both...


    Now back to the ID subject matter.
     
  5. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    I don't know what you mean by this.. please explain. who isn't allowed to do what?

    if you haven't learned anything by this discussion, then indeed it is a trainwreck of a thread. I've learned quite a lot! more about ID than I ever wanted to know. but at least now I know and I am glad.
     
  6. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    In the book, The First and Last Freedom, by J. Krishnamurti, Aldous Huxley writes in the Foreword, "An edcuation that teaches us not how, but what to think, is an education that calls for a governing class of pastors and masters."
     
  7. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    I like it SJ. thanks for that.

    I think we got off track on this thread. did anyone really read the article that FBB was referring to when he started this eye opening thread? take a look. it is not as much about ID as much as it is about evolution being removed from science curriculum... it is also about the kind of thinking going on in our own state. we need to know this. we need to be prepared... take a look.



    [​IMG]

    Posted on Thu, Jan. 10, 2008
    Kids paying for holy war over evolution

    By FRED GRIMM
    T he nine-hour drive was only the physical distance traveled by the two emissaries from rural Taylor County, nestled in the crook where Florida bends around the Gulf. Those 405 miles were nothing compared to the cultural gap they found in Miramar.
    Oscar Howard Jr., superintendent of Taylor County's School District, and Danny Lundy, vice chairman of the School Board, spoke in accents from that other Florida. ''We're opposed to teaching evolution as a fact,'' Howard said, adding that his School Board and 11 others have passed resolutions against the imposition of evolution in the school curriculum.
    Evolution, Lundy warned, would tear the Taylor public schools apart. ''The good people back home,'' he worried, would have no choice but to pull their kids out of school.
    DIFFERENT UNIVERSES
    Others attending the hearing on reviving the state of education's science standards Tuesday denounced this notion of teaching evolution, some evoking an evangelical language that hardly translated on the other side of the divide. A woman talked about God and miracles and friends brought back from death and how biblical faith, not evolution, revealed the only answers to life's mysteries.
    When geologist Ina B. Alterman, formerly of the National Research Council, came to the microphone to defend science, evolution and freedom from religious interference in education, it was as if she were speaking another language. She and her allies -- scientists, teachers, parents -- offered reasoned arguments for teaching evolution that would seem to overwhelm any science-based opposition. Hers was a majority position at the Miramar hearing. Oscar Howard Jr. said that up in Perry, anti-evolutionists would have made up 80 percent of the crowd.
    Mindful of attitudes in that other Florida, Boca Raton physician Tom Hall warned of the legal costs incurred by a quixotic, unconstitutional attempt by the Dover, Penn., School Board to teach faith-based Intelligent Design. But a Miami paramedic warned that taking God out of the classroom has led to immorality and violence. He related the beating death last week of a toddler by a 12-year-old in Lauderhill to the teaching of evolution. An unfathomable leap in logic on one side of the divide. An understandable leap of faith on the other.
    LET KIDS DECIDE?
    Even the word theory, this night, suffered irreconcilable definitions. Darwin's theory, up in Taylor County, population 20,000, only rates the pedestrian meaning: unproven speculation. Scientists speaking Tuesday night, one after another, reminded the audience that scientifically, the theory of evolution was no more speculative than the theory of gravity. This theory, they said, formed the basis for all biological science, girded by 156 years of research. Some who doubted Darwin suggested a populist solution. Teach all theories of creation. Let the kids decide. As if biology were as subjective as philosophy.
    More arguments and counter-arguments about faith and evolution were launched into a vacuum of irreconcilable beliefs. Then, the final speaker, Lisa Dizengoff, director of science curriculum at Pembroke Pines Charter School's east campus, angrily reminded the crowd that after all the carping over evolution, no one had gotten around to addressing the state's lackadaisical, last-century approach to science education. ''All I heard was this argument about evolution,'' she said, disgusted that so many other problems had been preempted by a single controversy. ``The kids lost out again.''








    ? 2008 Miami Herald Media Company. All Rights Reserved.
    http://www.miamiherald.com

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Us, get side-tracked? lol. Thanks for bringing it back. I did read it, and find it terrible that those schools are choosing not to teach the children how to think.
     
  9. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    "He related the beating death last week of a toddler by a 12-year-old in Lauderhill to the teaching of evolution."

    How does one even try to have a rational conversation with someone who thinks like this? I understand seeing another point of view, but can't I expect the other point of view to be sane?:lol:
     
  10. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Well, if humans had not grown arms and fists, beating someone to death would become more difficult.
     
  11. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    Well there ya go!:lol:
     
  12. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    :blink:oh. okay then. evolution=evil. well, that's an entirely different viewpoint!:floor:
     
  13. Mystified

    Mystified Beach Lover

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    I'm glad that my kids are grown (25M & 28F). The negleted/abandoned teens & children up & coming now are a dangerous lot. So desparate for love & attnetion they fall prey to anyone who will give them the attention they so desparatly need. My son is going to school for Phys Ed and I hear so many stories about the whackos on the fields. Oh thats the parents. oops.

    My girl is an EMT for ambulance corp. I'm glad that alothough we were dirt poor, I was able to be home with them and go to all their events. I really feel at least one parent grandparent, aunt/uncle, someone who loves them to be there when they get home from school and keep up with the current events in their lives. We may thing their petty but in the kids mind its real, scarey or just plain important.

    Its very very sad that nobody is there to raise them because the parents need to work for all the fancy yet (unecessary) things, cars & gadgets needed in their life. I drove an old used car, no cell phone nd I was so blessed that whatever they needed, like cleats, we were lucky enough to get the last pair in his size and they were on sale too.

    Even now, I have a Trac Phone and I love it. Luckily I'm not a big phone talker so I load it up every couple of mo's for $32. I refuse to pay all those freakin federal excise taxes, etc. In fact I don't pay for anything that I deem unnecessary. I walk into town to the post office, bank, etc.

    Sorry, I really got off subject here. I hope that I didn't offend anyone here with my opinions.
     
  14. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    :clap:sounds like some great kids mysty!
     
  15. Mystified

    Mystified Beach Lover

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    Thanks, yea they turned out great. The teen years were ruff. There were times I had to go out and find them in the middle fo the night. I'm sure their friends think I'm scarey because I've flipped a few times. whatever it took to keep them on the straight & narow....If I embarrassed them, they'd think twice about pulling those shennanigans again. :roll:

    Recently when asked if I have granchildren I found myself responding 'I don't want any, I'm still exhausted from raising 2 teens'!

    BTY I love your Heath avi. Too sad that a sexy creative guy left so soon. I guess it was his time. Did you see his daughter Matilda, she looks just like him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008
  16. Mystified

    Mystified Beach Lover

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    BTW has anyone seen 'Little Miss Sunshine' don't be discouraged by the title. It is a fab movie you'll both laugh and cry. I found myself laughing my azz off at the ending. In fact I've seen it 3 or 4 times or sometimes watch it from the middle it I happen to see it on (HBO). A great movie for those of us who have nerdy daughters competing with all the little beauty queens.
     
  17. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    Another excellent column from by Carl Hiaasen, in the Miami Herald. He hits the nail on the head. (thanks Bdarg for sending this)

    Good news/bad news: Florida voted to teach evolution, but it will be presented as a scientific theory.:roll:




    Our reputation for flakiness is at stake

    Posted on Sun, Feb. 17, 2008

    Digg del.icio.us AIM reprint print email

    By CARL HIAASEN

    In a move that could endanger Florida's flaky backwater reputation, the state Board of Education is poised to endorse the teaching of evolution as a science.
    This is a dangerous idea -- not the presentation of Darwinism in schools, but the presentation of Florida as a place of progressive scientific thought.
    Over the years the Legislature has worked tirelessly to keep our kids academically stuck in the mid-1950s. This has been achieved by overcrowding their classrooms, underpaying their teachers and letting their school buildings fall apart.
    Florida's plucky refusal to embrace 21st century education is one reason that prestigious tech industries have avoided the state, allowing so many of our high-school graduates (and those who come close) to launch prosperous careers in the fast-food, bartending and service sectors of the economy.
    By accepting evolution as a proven science, our top educators would be sending a loud message to the rest of the nation: Stop making fun of us.
    Is that what we really want?
    On Tuesday, , the Board of Education is scheduled to vote on a proposed set of new standards that describe evolution as the ''fundamental concept underlying all of biology'' and ``supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence.''
    Certainly that's the position of every reputable academic group on the planet, including the National Academy of Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the National Science Teachers Association.
    But forget the fossil record, OK? Forget DNA tracing. Forget the exhaustively documented diversification of species.
    This battle is about pride and independence; about boldly going against the flow, in defiance of reason and all known facts.
    In recent weeks, the Board of Education has been swamped by e-mails and letters from religious conservatives who advocate teaching creationism or intelligent design, and who believe evolution should be discussed strictly as a ``theory.''
    For those who wish to see Florida standing still, if not sinking, this is a fantastic strategy. In fact, it could be expanded to revise other educational doctrines.
    Let's start teaching gravity as a ''theory,'' too. And don't forget the solar system -- what proof do we really have, besides a bunch of fuzzy, fake-looking photos, that Mars really exists?
    At a recent public hearing in Orlando, opponents of evolutionary teaching rose one by one to assail the proposed curriculum standards. Some had traveled all the way from the Panhandle, and were, like presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, exclusive believers in the Bible's version of creation.
    According to The St. Petersburg Times, one speaker compared Charles Darwin, the father of evolutionary science, to Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin, well-known tyrants and mass murderers. Such loony gibberish is actually good for the anti-evolution crusade, providing the best evidence that the human species has not advanced one iota in the last 100,000 years.
    With this in mind, several school boards in North Florida have passed resolutions opposing the teaching of evolution as fact. True, students in those same districts have produced some of the worst science scores on the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, but who needs Newton or Copernicus when you've got the Corinthians?
    The notion that humans descended from apes has never been popular among fundamentalists, but what of the apes themselves? Given the gory history of Homo sapiens on Earth, no self-respecting chimp or gorilla would claim a genetic connection to us.
    The outcry against evolutionary instruction has been so heated that 40 members of the committee responsible for the new science standards felt compelled to sign a letter stating, ``There is no longer any valid scientific criticism of the theory of evolution.''
    Caving in to groups that question the soundness of science, the letter warned, ``would not only seriously impede the education of our children but also create the image of a backward state, raising the risk of Florida's being snubbed by biotechnology companies and other science-based businesses.''
    Nice try, pinheads, but there's no sin in being a slightly backward state with extremely modest expectations for its young people. That's been the guiding philosophy of our tightwad lawmakers for years, and the degree to which they've succeeded is illuminated annually in the FCAT charade.
    If snubbing is to be done, Florida should be the snubber, not the snubee. Keep your elite biotech payrolls up North and out West -- we've got hundreds of thousands of low-paying, go-nowhere jobs that require little training and minimal education.
    Should state officials vote this week to put evolution on the teaching agenda, it will be a small yet radical step out of Florida's backwarding-thinking past.
    Resistance is not futile. We've worked hard to keep ourselves so far behind in education, and we must stay the course.
     
  18. scooterbug44

    scooterbug44 SoWal Expert

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    That is a great column! Thanks for posting it! :wub:
     
  19. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    I think we should start the local Carl Hiaasen fan club and maybe we could talk him into a visit to SoWal. He needs a sticker.:D
     
  20. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Maybe I could sell him a house here. There is plenty of good material for him, right here in SoWal.
     

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