• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

aquaticbiology

fishlips
May 30, 2005
799
0
redneck heaven
another retaining wall - not designed to maintain a defense against the sea encroaching on the land, but to keep the sand pile the building is built onfrom slumping naturally and undermining the building

they should evacuate and just tear it down now and avoid the hassle and expense (yell at me all you want - I would have never built/bought on top of a protective dune system in the first place - and the county planners should be canned for letting them build on a protective dune system)

like being shot in the leg and having the doc just leave the bullet in and encase your whole leg in plaster as if it were broken - the problem is still there and will come back with a vengance in a very short time

just like the three little pigs flashing gang signs at the big bad wolf - it will only make things worse

hmpf!
 

aquaticbiology

fishlips
May 30, 2005
799
0
redneck heaven
yep - it aint no seawall - it's a retaining wall

this is a seawall:

ero12b.gif


and even worse:

ero54.gif
 
Last edited:

SoWalSally

Beach Fanatic
Feb 19, 2005
649
49
From Walton Sun

As many as 158 property owners could be risking prosecution under the federal Endangered Species Act if they complete construction of sea walls permitted by Walton County.

At least 52 who have finished their sea walls, along with the county, are already liable if violations of the federal law occur, according to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates.
The agency notified Walton County commissioners Monday of the number of times the ?taking? of what it believes is endangered species habitat could occur if all 220 permitted property owners complete their sea walls.
A letter signed by Deputy Field Operator Janet Mizzi provided estimates the county had requested, said U.S. Fish and Wildlife spokeswoman Lorna Patrick.
Mizzi?s letter repeated a call for county officials to apply for an incidental take permit. Such a permit would prevent federal officials from having to order each property owner to apply individually for take permits, it said.
Walton County Administrator Ronnie Bell said issues raised in the letter will be addressed at the County Commission?s Feb. 14 meeting.
Pat Blackshear, the county?s planning and development director, and other county staffers will research the Fish and Wildlife request and report to the county commission, Bell said.
Blackshear could not be reached for comment Wednesday. County Attorney David Hallman did not return phone calls seeking comment.
?Incidental taking? is the federal government?s term for depriving endangered species of habitat through construction or some other means.
On July 12, 2005, ? two days after Hurricane Dennis damaged or destroyed hundreds of Walton County homes and businesses ? the County Commission voted to permit emergency armoring of coastal properties.
However, federal officials contend that the county did so without notifying residents of the need to obtain federal take permits, Patrick said.
Now county officials must deal with the sticky issue of helping coastal property owners by obtaining the costly permits - something that might not sit well with inland property owners ? or letting the coastal property owners fend for themselves.
?There are pros and cons,? noted Gerry Demers, an engineer with the county?s Planning and Development Department. ?But those beaches are probably our greatest asset.?
The Commission could also ignore the federal government?s call for action. But that could prove costly.
Because neither the county nor the affected property owners sought federal permits before supposedly taking endangered species? habitat, all are liable, said Patrick.
No one is in violation of the Endangered Species Act until an animal of concern is harmed, such as a sea turtle being unable to nest. But at the moment liability exists if habitat was taken during construction.
?We have not covered anyone for incidental taking in Walton County,? Patrick said. ?If something happens to the sea turtles in the upcoming nesting season, they?re liable.?
Mizzi?s letter warns county officials that documented harm could lead to criminal prosecution.
?The county and the individual property owners are subject to law enforcement prosecution under the Endangered Species Act if take of a federally protected species is documented from the armoring while not covered under an incidental take permit,? the letter said.
The letter also states, ?The Service would not anticipate seeking prosecution provided the county is in the process of applying for a countywide incidental take permit.?
The estimates that the Fish and Wildlife Service provided to the county were based on data from ongoing site inspections by the state Department of Environmental Protection, the letter said.
Data collected so far from 110 sites indicated that endangered species habitat had been taken in 52 of the 79 cases where seawall construction had been completed. That is about 72 percent of projects, Mizzi?s letter said.
?Based on this estimate we would anticipate that 158 of the 220 properties could result in the incidental take of federally protected species,? the letter said.
The county issued only temporary armoring permits good for 60 days. The state must issue another permit if any of the structures are to be permanent. Only one state permit has been issued thus far.
Federal Endangered Species Act take guidelines don?t differentiate between temporary and permanent structures, the Fish and Wildlife letter said.
Sea turtles, which have nested in great numbers on South Walton County shores in recent years, ?would be most affected by the temporary armoring,? the letter said. It listed four species - the loggerhead, green, Kemp?s Ridley and leatherback, as possibly impacted by the sea walls.
The letter also said that Choctawhatchee Beach mice and piping plovers could have lost habitat.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
I just finished reading this article in the Sun, and was hoping you would post it. All I can say is WoW!
 

pgurney

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
587
66
ATL & Seacrest
Am I reading this article correctly? Is it saying there's a law forbidding the taking of endangered species habitat and that criminal prosecution could be the result? Then saying that if one were to be in the process of getting a permit for the taking, nothing would be done? It sounds like the laws are written to protect, but a permit will allow harming endangered species.

I'm clearly not getting something. :dunno:
 

aquaticbiology

fishlips
May 30, 2005
799
0
redneck heaven
I've watched law and order a few times and it sounds right, more than likely as long as you're in processing you can't be touched - out of their jurisdiction - but once the thing comes back that they applied for, it will either be denied or approved, and if its denied, then those who were denied (which there probably won't be any of, since it was natural disaster and not new construction, and the counstruction was approved by the county) can just claim that the county let them down by not telling them about the 'other jurisdictions' permits, leaving lots of lawers getting rich - I mean isn't that the whole idea of the system, for the lawyers to get richer? It all comes down to the houses being built on the dunes in the first place, and that was allowed by the county, and then the construction to save those same houses was also allowed by the county, regardless of federal regulations against either without a permit.

I cleaned it up a bit - congrats to those who saw it before it was edited (the second time).
 

John R

needs to get out more
Dec 31, 2005
6,777
819
Conflictinator
and, as we know ignorance is not a defense. these greedy fools who chose to build on a moving medium in the first place, and have now broken the law, should be required to remove the structures that are endangering a federally protected species. the fact that the dune mice have already been affected, fulfills this requirement, No one is in violation of the Endangered Species Act until an animal of concern is harmed, such as a sea turtle being unable to nest.

does it not?

take, take, take...

better drive your hummertahoesuburbanescaladeroverexcursionnavigatoravalanchdurangograndcherokeegx470envoydenalimountaineermarinertrailblazeraviator over to take a look


jr
 

DBOldford

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2005
990
15
Napa Valley, CA
The seawalls will shore up (pun intended) the houses for the short-term. That is why the County has declared the seawalls temporary, not permanent mitigation for the erosion from the 2005 storms. If we have future hurricanes making landfall nearby, or even large battering waves related to one far away, the beach will erode around the seawall. In some cases, the seawalls themselves will be undermined, because the water action sucks the sand from beneath. What is likely to happen in the interim is civil lawsuits between property owners with seawalls and those without them, the latter being adversely impacted by water and erosion that is the result of the seawall itself. If you are a property owner with seawalls on either side of you, your property is extremely vulnerable.

Once there is a preponderance of civil actions, it is only a short time until the County is enjoined in the litigation because they have not enforced these walls being only a temporary mitigation. Ultimately, the County will have no choice but to enforce the temporary status, the offending homeowners will be paying large abatement fees if they do not remove the seawalls, and the damage to the beaches will be significant while all this whining and litigation goes on ad nauseum.

The key is to make sure the seawall status remains temporary and the County does not change the ordinance so that they can remain in perpetuity. One would think that all this would at the very least cause the County to reconsider their pre-2005 season action that allowed property owners to build closer yet to the water's edge. The County elected officials would be well served by looking at what is done (or not) along the State Park coastal preserves. We are sacrificing the environment to the development lobby. Unfortunately, elected officials do not consider cumulative effect as a general rule, nor do they realize how insidious environmental damage is. Short-term planning is what they do in the morning; long-term planning is what they do in the afternoon. :bang: Our district's Cindy Meadows is an exception to this, partially because of her background as a land planner. We need more minds like hers.
 

tuck

Beach Lover
Dec 17, 2005
65
16
Our district's Cindy Meadows is an exception to this, partially because of her background as a land planner. We need more minds like hers.

Yes we do. We need to make sure we elect people that will work with her and not more like Ro who will simply vote for anything just to oppose Cindy.
 
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter