Seawalls

[greenroomsurfer]

Hey BMBV words apparently are not working, so I'll try Video. Here is your link an you may recognize the local folk. http://www.cccturtle.org/higherground.php. Hey Bobby J. Should I mention the they can't estimate our numbers?

 

[scooterbug44]

I certainly am not hoping for people to lose their homes to storms (except for the Emerald Grande - it hurts my eyes), but I am realistic about who will win in the battle between a house built on a pile of sand at the water's edge and Mother Nature's fury.

I don't feel that extensive and illegal construction that harms wildlife and possibly increases damage to other people's property is the answer - neither is spending millions for a subpar "fix" to a beach that will properly fix itself.

 

[BeachSiO2]

I doubt if anyone would prevail..."act of God" and all.

I agree you never know how a lawsuit will turn out, but I am pretty sure a lawsuit will be filed. The reason I think that it will is that I know of one property owner that was talking to a lawyer when a wall was being built beside her. Also, I know that she contacted a guy who wrote his masters theses on impacts of walls to adjacent properties in wave environments that would be similar to both natural waves and a hurricane in sowal.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I am not sure folks are trying to get their way. They are just pointing out the obvious and confused why people continue to fight a battle they unfortunately can not win.
I can surely understand the fear that the beachfront homeowner must feel regarding this issue but it does not justify the illegal placement of many of these walls.

I certainly am not hoping for people to lose their homes to storms (except for the Emerald Grande - it hurts my eyes), but I am realistic about who will win in the battle between a house built on a pile of sand at the water's edge and Mother Nature's fury.

I don't feel that extensive and illegal construction that harms wildlife and possibly increases damage to other people's property is the answer - neither is spending millions for a subpar "fix" to a beach that will properly fix itself.

Since you both used the word "illegal" as in placement and construction, would I be wasting my time asking how you feel about the "legal" ones?

 

[Smiling JOe]

BMBV, I will add that while I am against seawalls along the beach, I do not wish harm on anyone or their property, including beach-front owners. As someone else wrote, I am just stating some things that seem so obvious -- if you build on loose sand, don't be surprised if the sand washes away. I doubt the seawalls would hold up to a major Hurricane, and I think it is highly likely that we will find pieces of carbon or whatever they are made of, scattered down the beach and in the shallow water. It might look similar to WWII barricades along the beach, and if you think it was costly installing them, wait until you have to get a crane on a barge to pull them out of the water.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I agree you never know how a lawsuit will turn out, but I am pretty sure a lawsuit will be filed. The reason I think that it will is that I know of one property owner that was talking to a lawyer when a wall was being built beside her. Also, I know that she contacted a guy who wrote his masters theses on impacts of walls to adjacent properties in wave environments that would be similar to both natural waves and a hurricane in sowal.

Interesting. I wasn't looking at it from that angle, only from the "failure" of a seawall.

But since you brought it up...suppose my neighbors to the east and to the west of me built seawalls just before Hurricane Dennis and I didn't. Then when Dennis hits, I am amazed that the erosion at my property is 20 feet further than when Ivan and Opal hit.

Would I have the right to claim that the additional 20 feet of erosion was caused by the adjacent walls and therefore sue my neighbors?

 

[Smiling JOe]

Of course you have that right, but remember that the Court has a right to make a determination as to whether or not your claim is valid and deserving of an award.

 

[greenroomsurfer]

BeachSiO2 I walked down the access we talked about yesterday and it would make a nice access but I bet the home owners will be pissed. I have my private eye ( my mother, because she knows everyone in the neighborhood) to investigate peoples thought's on it. BMBV the state senate passed a bill that basically states that if ones seas wall fails or causes damage the state will clean up the mess an bill the responsible parties. I think it's the no net loss bill but I'll have to make a phone call an double check. As far as the video if you haven't watched it, the video tell you how bad the jetty's and seawalls affect the natural migration of the sand. Also the state will be taking measures so that there will be no more dredging just outflow pumping stations to get sand from one side of the jetty to the other. All beach armoring will be a dead dinosaur. Maholo and it's time to work my way across the county.

 

[BeachSiO2]

Interesting. I wasn't looking at it from that angle, only from the "failure" of a seawall.

But since you brought it up...suppose my neighbors to the east and to the west of me built seawalls just before Hurricane Dennis and I didn't. Then when Dennis hits, I am amazed that the erosion at my property is 20 feet further than when Ivan and Opal hit.

Would I have the right to claim that the additional 20 feet of erosion was caused by the adjacent walls and therefore sue my neighbors?

It's not quite that simple but let me partially lay out what my strategies would be in this instance if I was a "wall neighbor." I would document through surveying the conditions of my property, my neighbors property, and nearby natural areas at the beginning of hurricane season. If a hurricane hit, I would hire a qualified person (read "coastal expert") to have the beaches re-surveyed and analyzed to "tease out" if there was a measurable difference in my losses versus my neighbors, myself, and the control areas. There are predictive, quantitative and qualitative models that can be used to measure these differences as downdrift impacts have been studied just about forever.

If there were impacts, I would hire a lawyer and argue that even if the owner was able to get a permit to protect his house, his permit does not give him the right to construct an artificial structure on the beach that negatively impacted my property. I would also have put my neighbor on notice that his structure could become a nuisance to my property.

Keep in mind, I am not a lawyer in this instance, but I know of one local one that would probably take the case. So best case scenario is that the walled property owner would only have legal fees, but they could be paying to replace my sand or more and we all know how expensive that is.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

It's not quite that simple but let me partially lay out what my strategies would be in this instance if I was a "wall neighbor." I would document through surveying the conditions of my property, my neighbors property, and nearby natural areas at the beginning of hurricane season. If a hurricane hit, I would hire a qualified person (read "coastal expert") to have the beaches re-surveyed and analyzed to "tease out" if there was a measurable difference in my losses versus my neighbors, myself, and the control areas. There are predictive, quantitative and qualitative models that can be used to measure these differences as downdrift impacts have been studied just about forever.

If there were impacts, I would hire a lawyer and argue that even if the owner was able to get a permit to protect his house, his permit does not give him the right to construct an artificial structure on the beach that negatively impacted my property. I would also have put my neighbor on notice that his structure could become a nuisance to my property.

Keep in mind, I am not a lawyer in this instance, but I know of one local one that would probably take the case. So best case scenario is that the walled property owner would only have legal fees, but they could be paying to replace my sand or more and we all know how expensive that is.

Re: "...(read "coastal expert")..." They've all moved away from what I hear.
But now that I think about it, we have a bunch right here on SoWal.;-)

I basically agree with your premise above. And I'm glad you pointed out the idea of establishing VALID "reference" points (similar topography and all). That was the point of my 20 feet of "additional erosion" comment.