The Trouble with Islam

[mf]

The term "white western guilt" is a cheap deflection on the truth. When I was a child, there were "white" and "colored" drinking fountains. Chew on that idea awhile when you feel all smug about America. Elevating your religion or race above others is the main cause of killing over the history of mankind, and the angle you pursue here is what pompously put us in Iraq. Our system works well because we isolate religion from government. Your democracy/facism quote is a crock. Where did you lift that from, Reader's Digest?

how do you know my race or religion?? a little presumptuous no?

 

[mf]

or my country by the way! i CHOOSE to live in america my dear. i don't HAVE to. i have citizenship elsewhere.

i'll be calling it a night on this thread after those last ignorant remarks.

 

[Bob]

how do you know my race or religion?? a little presumptuous no?

You are a child of the Universe.

 

[rancid]

intelligent and well-read people frequent all news sources and outlets: fox, cnn, bbc, al jazeera, various internet versions of papers including thenew york times, jerusalem post, etc. and numerous first person reporting blogs included. those who fear information and scream for censorship are the kind whoinsist that the "truth" only comes from one source. i suppose that puts you in the same category with other extremists who insist that the "other" is evil and not worth hearing.

as for outcry, i hardly heard any from any western news outlet during hussein's genocide of the kurds to facilitate oil deals with the french and russians. i suppose "no blood for oil" only applies to white western lives where "anti-war" folks are concerned. as for people who hear the iraquis outcry about 85% of the americans working with charities to help the iraqis are from military families. so excuse me if i don't buy the "pompous compassionate outrage".

oh..p.s. i'm not affiliated with any political party, i'm not about to pledge my allegiance to some party bent on destroying our country in the name of achieving their own ends and power base. but given your personally insulting post, i'm sure that's a bit much to wrap your head around.

I do not wish to get in a long discussion with you as it is clear that you are fixed in your views. That is fine but for others reading this post, allow me to point out a couple of things. Quoting U.S networks, British news outlets, Israeli newspapers, and various blogs hardly makes up likely sources of moderate Islamic views. True al-jazeera is an Arab source but one with an agenda similar to its American counterpart. My guess is that MF's exposure to al-jazeera is limited to excerpts played on western news outlets. I am not sure where MF sees me "screaming" for censorship but whatever.
I am equally confused by MF's assertion that there was not enough outcry about gassing of the Kurds in the 1980's and therefore there is no nead for an outcry now about Iraqis dying. Check out this picture and article of Rumsfeld and Saddam meeting to help channel helicopters to the Iraqis to help use chemical weapons against the Iranians in the 80's. Quite ironic. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
There are basically two ways to look at the Iraq debacle-- a worldview and an American view. I choose a worldview; MF chooses an America-centric one. From a selfish standpoint, he is right. It doesn't hurt me in my easy life in ATL to watch things fall apart overseas. I am probably the fool to care about the rest of the world and how our actions affect it.
With that I leave you as I am off to some sweet N. Georgia mountain biking. I love this country.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Rancid, along with your thoughts of Rumsfield and Saddam, I seem to remember something about the US supplying weapons and training to Osama Bin Laden and Afghanistan to fight the Russians. That wasn't many years ago.
It seems that we tend to not think too far in advance, when acting locally or globally. All of this kind of reflects back to my earlier quote from Tom Robbins. They are all the same, just different.

 

[6thGen]

Here is another Robbins quote, "intellectually, emotionally, and physically, (America) has been exhibiting all the characteristics of an adolescent bully, a pubescent punk who's too big for his britches and too strong for his age. Someday, perhaps, we may grow out of our mindless, pimple-faced arrogance, but in the meantime, it might do us a ton of good to have our butts kicked."

And this "You see, the powers behind Communism and the powers behind Capitalism are virtually the same people." is possibly the most wrong quote I've ever read.

 

[MAN-go]

Here is another Robbins quote, Someday, perhaps, we may grow out of our mindless, pimple-faced arrogance, but in the meantime, it might do us a ton of good to have our butts kicked."

I have been reading some of your threads, and well......wow, sounds applicable to uh........you.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Here is another Robbins quote, "intellectually, emotionally, and physically, (America) has been exhibiting all the characteristics of an adolescent bully, a pubescent punk who's too big for his britches and too strong for his age. Someday, perhaps, we may grow out of our mindless, pimple-faced arrogance, but in the meantime, it might do us a ton of good to have our butts kicked."

And this "You see, the powers behind Communism and the powers behind Capitalism are virtually the same people." is possibly the most wrong quote I've ever read.

I guess you could apply this quote to other things, too. For instance, our gas inefficient vehicles which will not stop being produced until we get our butts kicked with the price of gas reaching $7 per gallon. ;-)

 

[Hu Phlung Pu]

i can't speak for everyone, but in my opinion, the religious respect and freedom that i think works best is similar to isreal - where most of the population is secular - but isreali troops have been injured protecting islamic holy sites. they have also, in the name of peace, agreed to give muslims control of their only holy site. the site of the temple in jerusalem. despite the fact that muslims refuse any jew entry into this holy site, isrealis honor this agreement in the name of social peace.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount[/ame]



Most [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_Judaism"]Orthodox[/ame] rabbis, both those belonging to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism"]Religious Zionist[/ame] and the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi"]Haredi[/ame] Orthodox streams of, have issued prohibitions against entering the Temple Mount because of the danger of entering the area of the Temple courtyard and the difficulty of fulfilling the ritual requirement of cleansing oneself with the ashes of a red [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow"]heifer[/ame] (see [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Numbers"]Numbers 19[/ame]), and declared it punishable with [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karet"]karet[/ame], death by heavenly decree [27].

A Muslim [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waqf"]Waqf[/ame] has managed the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif continuously since the Muslim reconquest of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem"]Kingdom of Jerusalem[/ame]. Since taking control of the area in the Six-Day War, Israel has permitted the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waqf"]Waqf[/ame] to retain internal administration of the site. Under this arrangement Jews and Christians are permitted to visit the site.

 

[Bob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount



Most Orthodox rabbis, both those belonging to the Religious Zionist and the Haredi Orthodox streams of, have issued prohibitions against entering the Temple Mount because of the danger of entering the area of the Temple courtyard and the difficulty of fulfilling the ritual requirement of cleansing oneself with the ashes of a red heifer (see Numbers 19), and declared it punishable with karet, death by heavenly decree [27].

A Muslim Waqf has managed the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif continuously since the Muslim reconquest of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Since taking control of the area in the Six-Day War, Israel has permitted the Waqf to retain internal administration of the site. Under this arrangement Jews and Christians are permitted to visit the site.

A drop of civility in an ocean of strife.