The Trouble with Islam

[2bfabian]

I guess I need to go ahead and tell 6th Gen no hard feelings. Without a doubt there is much I could teach him,but in the future let your grace be seasoned with a little salt. It is easy to rebuke someone but with kindness you will always be receptive by a wise man.

so and so said that

PS You must be younger than I thought. let say probably trying his hardest to make a go at it. Definitely not from around here(hey So Wal) comment gave you away on that you love to talk about politics so I would guess you in someway have a political background or family in politics. Many of your idea's seemed to plagiarize others work's, but that could come from your respect of there work.Definitely Privileged I would say along with ever so slight a case of narcissism. Not a bad thing just something that comes out from your threads. Take me for instance My Grandpa was a logger who's father died at the picture pump pumping water to drink when he was 12. A small difference yet somehow I would trust his advice over all those fellers you like to quote. Only a younger man would be so complacent about a war.

 

[mf]

You don't know your history. Maybe that is what you see in today's world, but it has not always been that way.

actually, i have a minor in religion and have read most of the major religious texts. while i could go on a rampage about the inquisition or the crusades, i think it's important to keep this discussion to what's relevant today. and yes, i've seen jesus camp, and while it's scary, the overriding difference is that most people in western society would also view it as scary and extremist - while that same kind of hate speech against jews and infidels makes it into advertising-supported kid's tv shows on worldwide arabic tv.

in fact, many people confuse "respect" for other's religions with acceptance. in fact, social tolerance is a very different thing and is all that is required to live in a diverse society.

in the past, our democracy provided a safe environment for people to live their own belief system while honoring other's rights. that is no longer the case. in the u.s. while christian prayer and symbolism is legally forbidden in public schools, we are no approving curriculums that insist children recite islamic prayers daily to "encourage understanding."

i can't speak for everyone, but in my opinion, the religious respect and freedom that i think works best is similar to isreal - where most of the population is secular - but isreali troops have been injured protecting islamic holy sites. they have also, in the name of peace, agreed to give muslims control of their only holy site. the site of the temple in jerusalem. despite the fact that muslims refuse any jew entry into this holy site, isrealis honor this agreement in the name of social peace.

so while there will always be individuals who use their personal rage and hate to attack other religions, i think it's unfair to assess the jewish and christian cultures of intolerance. i think they've done pretty well at keeping oppression in check. while islam really needs their moderates to step up to the plate because their extremists have taken over.

 

[Smiling JOe]

To clarify my point:

You stated that Christians and Jews respect other religions. That is such a blanket statement and not fully true. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church and that church preaches that all who do not believe that Jesus Christ is their saviour, are going to Hell. Now if you call that "respecting" other religions, so be it, but I sure as heck don't. They also preached that if you weren't trying to convert non-believers into followers of Jesus Christ, you were not being a good Christian. Respect is not about trying to convert others to your own beliefs. It has more to do with acknowledging that others may have their own beliefs by which they should live. Also, my reference to history is that religious wars have been fought for thousands of years by Christians and Jews alike. If you want to call going to war over your beliefs, "respecting" other religions, so be it, but I don't. I am no religious scholar, but I don't have to be to know that Christianity spread by leaching onto other religions. Look at history and you will see that Christian holidays are mostly taken from Pagans, even the whole Easter bunny laying eggs still has direct ties to Paganism. I am not against Christianity, but to say that Christians respect other religions, I think the history books might disagree.

 

[CampCreekLou]

Glad to hear your family preacher indicated that non-believers will go to hell, and not: kill them - since they don't believe.

 

[florida girl]

I wonder if the twenty something people who were killed at Virginia Tech this morning were shot by Muslims, or maybe they were shot by crackers.

What have you got against "Crackers"?

 

[florida girl]

in fact, many people confuse "respect" for other's religions with acceptance. in fact, social tolerance is a very different thing and is all that is required to live in a diverse society.

I agree!

[/QUOTE]in the past, our democracy provided a safe environment for people to live their own belief system while honoring other's rights. that is no longer the case. in the u.s. while christian prayer and symbolism is legally forbidden in public schools, we are no approving curriculums that insist children recite islamic prayers daily to "encourage understanding."[/QUOTE]

That is actually incorrect. http://www.aclj.org/Issues/Resources/Document.aspx?ID=864#

Student Rights Guaranteed Under the Constitution and Federal Law

Freedom to Meet with Other Students for Prayer, Bible Study, and Worship

Freedom to Wear Clothing Depicting Religious Messages and Symbols

Freedom to Express Religious Beliefs on Campus

Freedom to Share Religious Tracts on Campus

Freedom to Pray Voluntarily

Freedom to Carry a Bible or Other Religious Literature

Freedom to Prepare School Assignments and Projects From, and Expressing, a Religious Perspective

Freedom to Observe Religious Holidays on Campus

Freedom to Organize Religious Clubs

Freedom to Live According to Their Religious Beliefs While on Campus

 

[florida girl]

"...As a matter of fact, the entire system into which you were born and which now, upon completion of high (high?) school you must perhaps face more directly, is a system designed to trap you- and manipulate you as a co-operating slave, a system designed to steep you in Hell.

Hell is living in your fears, and it is through fear, both
subtle and overt, that the system traps you. Fear of failure, fear of social rejection, fear of poverty, fear of punishment, fear of death.

For example, we are taught to fear something called Communism, and millions of Americans go to bed every night wondering if Mao Tse Tung is under their bed. Conversely, on the other side of the world millions of Russians and Chinese go to bed wondering if Henry Kissenger is under their bed. Our totalitarian government uses the hoax of the threat of Communism to control and enslave us, just as the totalitarian Communist governments use the hoax of the threat of capitalism to control and enslave their people. It's an extremely old and obviously effective trick.

You see, the powers behind Communism and the powers behind Capitalism are virtually the same people. We might also include the powers behind the Vatican and the powers behind Islam. Their main function is to mystify the popular mind by creating illusions of omnipotence and omniscience with which to command docility from their subjects, although it does not require much thorough investigation to discover that few of the peoples of this world are happy, healthy, or fulfilled...."

Tom Robbins

Pretty strong statement, powers behind Communism and Capitalism virtually the same? Doesn't that rather upset the whole American fight for freedom?

 

[Jdarg]

I agree!

in the past, our democracy provided a safe environment for people to live their own belief system while honoring other's rights. that is no longer the case. in the u.s. while christian prayer and symbolism is legally forbidden in public schools, we are no approving curriculums that insist children recite islamic prayers daily to "encourage understanding."[/quote]

That is actually incorrect. http://www.aclj.org/Issues/Resources/Document.aspx?ID=864#

Student Rights Guaranteed Under the Constitution and Federal Law

Freedom to Meet with Other Students for Prayer, Bible Study, and Worship

Freedom to Wear Clothing Depicting Religious Messages and Symbols

Freedom to Express Religious Beliefs on Campus

Freedom to Share Religious Tracts on Campus

Freedom to Pray Voluntarily

Freedom to Carry a Bible or Other Religious Literature

Freedom to Prepare School Assignments and Projects From, and Expressing, a Religious Perspective

Freedom to Observe Religious Holidays on Campus

Freedom to Organize Religious Clubs

Freedom to Live According to Their Religious Beliefs While on Campus[/quote]


A little back ground on this American Center for Law and Justice:
The American Center for Law and Justice was founded in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990"]1990[/ame] by [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian"]Christian[/ame] Dr. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson"]Pat Robertson[/ame] as a nonprofit public interest law firm composed of attorneys committed to defending the Constitutional right to religious liberty, the sanctity of human life, and the two-parent, marriage-bound family." It was conceived as a counterweight to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union"]American Civil Liberties Union[/ame], an organization which in the words of Robertson is "hostile to traditional [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_values"]American values[/ame]".

Just love that Pat Robertson- he's about as tolerant, non-judgemental, and Christian as they come.:roll:

 

[florida girl]

A little back ground on this American Center for Law and Justice:
The American Center for Law and Justice was founded in 1990 by Christian Dr. Pat Robertson as a nonprofit public interest law firm composed of attorneys committed to defending the Constitutional right to religious liberty, the sanctity of human life, and the two-parent, marriage-bound family." It was conceived as a counterweight to the American Civil Liberties Union, an organization which in the words of Robertson is "hostile to traditional American values".

Just love that Pat Robertson- he's about as tolerant, non-judgemental, and Christian as they come.:roll:

Hey, if he got the job done! American citizens do have rights!

 

[mf]

in the past, our democracy provided a safe environment for people to live their own belief system while honoring other's rights. that is no longer the case. in the u.s. while christian prayer and symbolism is legally forbidden in public schools, we are no approving curriculums that insist children recite islamic prayers daily to "encourage understanding."

That is actually incorrect. http://www.aclj.org/Issues/Resources/Document.aspx?ID=864#

Student Rights Guaranteed Under the Constitution and Federal Law

Freedom to Meet with Other Students for Prayer, Bible Study, and Worship

Freedom to Wear Clothing Depicting Religious Messages and Symbols

Freedom to Express Religious Beliefs on Campus

Freedom to Share Religious Tracts on Campus

Freedom to Pray Voluntarily

Freedom to Carry a Bible or Other Religious Literature

Freedom to Prepare School Assignments and Projects From, and Expressing, a Religious Perspective

Freedom to Observe Religious Holidays on Campus

Freedom to Organize Religious Clubs

Freedom to Live According to Their Religious Beliefs While on Campus[/quote]


A little back ground on this American Center for Law and Justice:
The American Center for Law and Justice was founded in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990"]1990[/ame] by [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian"]Christian[/ame] Dr. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson"]Pat Robertson[/ame] as a nonprofit public interest law firm composed of attorneys committed to defending the Constitutional right to religious liberty, the sanctity of human life, and the two-parent, marriage-bound family." It was conceived as a counterweight to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union"]American Civil Liberties Union[/ame], an organization which in the words of Robertson is "hostile to traditional [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_values"]American values[/ame]".

Just love that Pat Robertson- he's about as tolerant, non-judgemental, and Christian as they come.:roll:[/quote]

and, in our judeo-christian society, a majority of people consider him an extremist and he has very little power in our country or on the worldstage as a result- indeed he is almost never seen on national network television. indeed, even the vatican, which was once revered on the world stage, has many outspoken critics even within its own church.

whilst, in current muslim culture, a majority of society both muslim and western, do not consider muslim terrorist behavior extremist or oppressive , but instead rationalize it. and you rarely hear any outcry or dissention from within the society. compare the identified religious extremist in judeo-christianity with the muslim inclusion of hate-speech in text books and the use of multinational arabic network to convey speech and promotion of violent terrorism:

children taught culture of death:
http://www.pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_AFD_short.asx

legitimizing hate speech on a world stage:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html

international arabic news program featuring little girl:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo&mode=related&search"]YouTube - Arabs brainwashed little girls to hate Jews[/ame]=


meanwhile little kids in isreal are singing peace songs and talking about loving one another. most are traumatized by how they see these children being raised once they enter the army. it is so different than the jewish culture.

when i see equal outcry against this muslim hate-speech on al jazeera, then i will believe islam has potential for tolerance. but i have not heard any outcry.

for those who compare the mission of our soldiers with terrorists, i have nothing to offer other than, we simply do not share the same values of life and liberty.