The Trouble with Islam

[Smiling JOe]

No matter how much I disagreed with someone I knew I could not bring my self to speak ill of the dead. We are all sinners in some way or another.

I guess you are just better than us. I have no problem talking "ill" about Hitler and plenty of other people who are long gone.

 

[mf]

but to our surprise the tours have been filled with evangelical Christians, fundamentalist Jews, and militant Muslims. Apparently, they are just obsessed with Hell???

that's cute sugar, but highly inaccurate. jews don't believe in hell.

 

[mf]

If he has very little power in our country, then why are you, and others talking about him? Apparently he has more power than you admit.

i never talk about him dear. only in response to others who use him as an expample. read a bit more thoroughly next time before jumping the gun.

 

[mf]

The outcry is not on FOX News which I guess you frequent. Please tell me where you would turn for the moderate muslim viewpoint. Parroting conservative talk radio grows tiresome.
Let me put the shoe on the other foot for you. Iraqis are sitting around now wondering where all the "outcry" is about their destroyed country and dead citizens. They have not seen it on CNN and FOX. They probably have seen it fomented on their "FOX News-jazeera"

When you state we do not share the same values of life and liberty, what do you mean? You and I? Iraqis and Americans? Muslims and Christians?

intelligent and well-read people frequent all news sources and outlets: fox, cnn, bbc, al jazeera, various internet versions of papers including thenew york times, jerusalem post, etc. and numerous first person reporting blogs included. those who fear information and scream for censorship are the kind whoinsist that the "truth" only comes from one source. i suppose that puts you in the same category with other extremists who insist that the "other" is evil and not worth hearing.

as for outcry, i hardly heard any from any western news outlet during hussein's genocide of the kurds to facilitate oil deals with the french and russians. i suppose "no blood for oil" only applies to white western lives where "anti-war" folks are concerned. as for people who hear the iraquis outcry about 85% of the americans working with charities to help the iraqis are from military families. so excuse me if i don't buy the "pompous compassionate outrage".

oh..p.s. i'm not affiliated with any political party, i'm not about to pledge my allegiance to some party bent on destroying our country in the name of achieving their own ends and power base. but given your personally insulting post, i'm sure that's a bit much to wrap your head around.

 

[Bob]

actually, i have a minor in religion and have read most of the major religious texts. while i could go on a rampage about the inquisition or the crusades, i think it's important to keep this discussion to what's relevant today. and yes, i've seen jesus camp, and while it's scary, the overriding difference is that most people in western society would also view it as scary and extremist - while that same kind of hate speech against jews and infidels makes it into advertising-supported kid's tv shows on worldwide arabic tv.

in fact, many people confuse "respect" for other's religions with acceptance. in fact, social tolerance is a very different thing and is all that is required to live in a diverse society.

in the past, our democracy provided a safe environment for people to live their own belief system while honoring other's rights. that is no longer the case. in the u.s. while christian prayer and symbolism is legally forbidden in public schools, we are no approving curriculums that insist children recite islamic prayers daily to "encourage understanding."

i can't speak for everyone, but in my opinion, the religious respect and freedom that i think works best is similar to isreal - where most of the population is secular - but isreali troops have been injured protecting islamic holy sites. they have also, in the name of peace, agreed to give muslims control of their only holy site. the site of the temple in jerusalem. despite the fact that muslims refuse any jew entry into this holy site, isrealis honor this agreement in the name of social peace.

so while there will always be individuals who use their personal rage and hate to attack other religions, i think it's unfair to assess the jewish and christian cultures of intolerance. i think they've done pretty well at keeping oppression in check. while islam really needs their moderates to step up to the plate because their extremists have taken over.

In the past our country has trampled on anyones' rights if they were "in the way". We murdered, raped, and killed our way across North America taking land that did not ever belong to us, and enslaved an entire race of people for business purposes. What safe environment do you speak of, and who benefitted from it? You have a minor in Religion, but how about some basic history? Regarding Christian and Jewish tolerance, how can you compare our secular society with their religion dominated culture. Can you imagine everyone in your hometown stopping en masse to pray 5 times, every day. What do you expect? If the Southern Baptists ran the United States, then we could compare societies, and the Muslims could whine about the absence of Christian moderates.

 

[organicmama]

To me, Religion is synonymous with Trouble. Jesus wasn't Christian, Buddha wasn't Buddhist and Muhammad wasn't Muslim. They were spiritual men who gave of themselves to a higher being and purpose and left labels alone. Why subsequent followers dropped that fundamental teaching is the cause for hateful ignorance and man-made dogmatic religion, IMO.

But what do I know, I rent beach chairs while watching dolphins, sandpipers and children play. ;-)

:clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1:

 

[mf]

In the past our country has trampled on anyones' rights if they were "in the way". We murdered, raped, and killed our way across North America taking land that did not ever belong to us, and enslaved an entire race of people for business purposes. What safe environment do you speak of, and who benefitted from it? You have a minor in Religion, but how about some basic history? Regarding Christian and Jewish tolerance, how can you compare our secular society with their religion dominated culture. Can you imagine everyone in your hometown stopping en masse to pray 5 times, every day. What do you expect? If the Southern Baptists ran the United States, then we could compare societies, and the Muslims could whine about the absence of Christian moderates.

enough with the white western guilt...shall we? in the past, ALL peoples were brutal rampaging intolerant warmongers. pick up the history book of ANY peoples.

and when i say "christian and jewish society" i'm referring to our country which has a legal system that is based on jewish law and a christian culture. thankfully, our current democracy and legal system has created an environment where mutual tolerance is enforced. i didn't say decimated!! as long as there are people there will be schmucks and hate-mongers who use religion to make a point, but then again, we also have plenty of atheists who are schmucks and hatemongers who try to convert "nonbelievers" to their party and use their political "gods" to make a point.

yeah, it's not perfect. but at least we can pride ourselves in creating an environment where people are allowed to follow different religions and even live out their crazy extremist theories without actually infringing on anyone's rights by living within the limits of the law.

democracy is messy and offensive. facism is clean and orderly.
i pick democracy.

 

[Mango]

Hell, via Stagecoach

Local Tour Operator and Guide, 30gAy announced Monday that he plans to continue offering his popular 14 day bus excursions to Hell.

"

:funn: :rofl:

that's cute sugar, but highly inaccurate. jews don't believe in hell.

After reading this thread anyone would believe in Hell.

 

[Bob]

enough with the white western guilt...shall we? in the past, ALL peoples were brutal rampaging intolerant warmongers. pick up the history book of ANY peoples.

and when i say "christian and jewish society" i'm referring to our country which has a legal system that is based on jewish law and a christian culture. thankfully, our current democracy and legal system has created an environment where mutual tolerance is enforced. i didn't say decimated!! as long as there are people there will be schmucks and hate-mongers who use religion to make a point, but then again, we also have plenty of atheists who are schmucks and hatemongers who try to convert "nonbelievers" to their party and use their political "gods" to make a point.

yeah, it's not perfect. but at least we can pride ourselves in creating an environment where people are allowed to follow different religions and even live out their crazy extremist theories without actually infringing on anyone's rights by living within the limits of the law.

democracy is messy and offensive. facism is clean and orderly.
i pick democracy.

The term "white western guilt" is a cheap deflection on the truth. When I was a child, there were "white" and "colored" drinking fountains. Chew on that idea awhile when you feel all smug about America. Elevating your religion or race above others is the main cause of killing over the history of mankind, and the angle you pursue here is what pompously put us in Iraq. Our system works well because we isolate religion from government. Your democracy/facism quote is a crock. Where did you lift that from, Reader's Digest?

 

[mf]

:funn: :rofl:



After reading this thread anyone would believe in Hell.

yes..ignorance and intolerance is indeed hell. :roll: