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Kurt

Admin
Staff member
Oct 15, 2004
2,233
4,925
SoWal
mooncreek.com
well, I'll give you this. I am getting a bit more intrigued, and impassioned by the rareness of my side of this debate... and for this community in particular. I take the planet personally.

My loneliness in opinion on this thread, stands in contrast to the fact that an LSV statute passed at all in Florida. I'm hearing all the exception to the rule arguments here too.... similar to what you hear anti-environmentalists or flat earthers, or non climate change folks pointing out. Which ride has a bigger carbon footprint I ask you? and I get legitimate rationalizations only, pointing out how legitimate LSV's "might" be more pollutant for jaunts on 30A, than a Nissan Armada.


I appreciate your viewpoint and you posting your opinions, even if a tad aggressive. A lone voice need not be any louder to be heard on this forum.

I admit to never having thought about LSVs before this thread, or have any knowledge of the statute or what is going on in the rest of Florida.

LSVs seem to make sense in the homogenous environment of a planned community. They don't make nearly as much sense on a 17-mile long county highway connecting diverse communities, many of which aren't LSV friendly.

The green argument holds little water because SoWal is a destination for families in SUVs. Adding LSVs for them after they get here just adds to the drain of raw materials for LSV production, the energy costs of LSV manufacture and operation, and the pollution and land filling disposal of the vehicle at some point in the future.

When SoWal starts getting planned communities for permanent residents, then maybe the green argument will make sense.
 

NOLA TRANSPLANT

Beach Lover
Jul 24, 2007
145
21
Exactly, Sunspotbaby.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,732
3,330
Sowal
I love that just because I think LSV's are a bad idea I am anti-green or anti-environment. :roll:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I am off to walk to the farmer's market. :moon:
 

SurfKitten

Beach Comber
Jan 16, 2009
17
4
South Walton
All I know is that when I pull out to scenic 98 in destin, at 7:30 am, i shouldnt have to worry about ma and pa kettle checking out the scenery at 15 mph. all I ask is that you GO THE FREAKING SPEED LIMIT AT 35. i had a man point at the MPH sign as he was driving (he was probably 95) and it said 35. he was going 20. like I was doing something wrong by tailgating him. JUST GOOOOO.... we have JOBSS!!!!!
 

poppy

Banned
Sep 10, 2008
2,854
928
Miramar Beach
well, I'll give you this. I am getting a bit more intrigued, and impassioned by the rareness of my side of this debate... and for this community in particular. I take the planet personally.

My loneliness in opinion on this thread, stands in contrast to the fact that an LSV statute passed at all in Florida. I'm hearing all the exception to the rule arguments here too.... similar to what you hear anti-environmentalists or flat earthers, or non climate change folks pointing out. Which ride has a bigger carbon footprint I ask you? and I get legitimate rationalizations only, pointing out how legitimate LSV's "might" be more pollutant for jaunts on 30A, than a Nissan Armada.

Kurt's advice was good but I do admire and respect your passion and your willingness to fight to have your viewpoint heard.:boxing:
 

robertsondavies

Beach Fanatic
Apr 16, 2006
500
28
I appreciate your viewpoint and you posting your opinions, even if a tad aggressive. A lone voice need not be any louder to be heard on this forum.

I admit to never having thought about LSVs before this thread, or have any knowledge of the statute or what is going on in the rest of Florida.

LSVs seem to make sense in the homogenous environment of a planned community. They don't make nearly as much sense on a 17-mile long county highway connecting diverse communities, many of which aren't LSV friendly.

The green argument holds little water because SoWal is a destination for families in SUVs. Adding LSVs for them after they get here just adds to the drain of raw materials for LSV production, the energy costs of LSV manufacture and operation, and the pollution and land filling disposal of the vehicle at some point in the future.

When SoWal starts getting planned communities for permanent residents, then maybe the green argument will make sense.

Thanks Kurt. You and others make numerous valid points, I don't yet agree with you though overall - If you guys organize and roll back LSV for 30A, so be it.. I'm interested in the dialogue. I was aggressive above admitedly, but make no apology, I felt quite provoked - frankly was caught offguard by an out of character (IMO) comment by SWGB, who usually posts the coolest things, and obviously hence is so well liked by the online community. It caused me to argue way more forcefully 'for" LSVS than I actually otherwise would have, but I still on balance agree with the proposal being forwarded by The Friends of 30A (apparently not your friends lol) I still say, I've been slowed by obnoxious (won't pull over under any circumstance) cyclists on 30A than golf carts (licensed by LSV or not) but I can't speak for your experiences.
As far as the 'green' stuff goes, I have conceded earlier it is no panacea, it is a tough call as to the environment, and your best point is that this causes us to produce more crap (i.e. golf carts) that eventually go to the junk heap, and that's a damn good point, even if more than offset by the carbon benefit, of riding 1000 pound vehicles on electricity while on vacation, vs. 6000 pound vehicles on unleaded gasoline.
Vacation homes and resorts are also superfuous unecessary output waste, by some extension of that logic however. And so therefore, as a user of resorts in general and vacation homes etc. I am not GREEN, and am the opposite of green. If I were truly out to save the planet, I'd sleep in a tent when in SoWal, instead of a house that's occupied 50 days a year. So I'll have to allow you (all) that I'm not truly green in the least, and if any of you are truly living green lives, congrats. All I do is make gestures, like put a solar panel up on a 2nd home, or look into putting up a mini windmill generator on same etc. But those aren't 'green'... b/c the 2nd home itself hurts the planet, just like manufacture and eventual disposal of an LSV.

I'm tired of this topic now... I think I'll change gears so to speak, and just shut up until I trade in my Tahoe for something more planet friendly. All I really want is a convertible, screw golf carts.
 

seagrover

Beach Fanatic
Nov 16, 2004
810
28
Seagrove Beach, FL
All I know is that when I pull out to scenic 98 in destin, at 7:30 am, i shouldnt have to worry about ma and pa kettle checking out the scenery at 15 mph. all I ask is that you GO THE FREAKING SPEED LIMIT AT 35. i had a man point at the MPH sign as he was driving (he was probably 95) and it said 35. he was going 20. like I was doing something wrong by tailgating him. JUST GOOOOO.... we have JOBSS!!!!!

I have to agree. It does get quite irritating to be behind someone sight seeing and pointing and looking and going sooooo slow. Some of us actually do have places to go.

I hate to see what it will do to the businesses on 30A if they pass this because I will head for 98 as soon as possible.
 

Street Legal Carts

Beach Crab
Mar 4, 2010
4
0
Good question

Do LSVs include mopeds? I know the tourists love them, but they've become an eye sore / noise nuisance on scenic 98.

30-Ashopper,

No, mopeds are not included in the LSV classification. Under federal laws an LSV is a four wheeled vehicle that must do a min. speed of 20MPH and not exceed 25MPH. Florida statutes have narrowed that definition to "electric four wheeled vehicles" thus not allowing any gas powered carts to become street legal. Florida narrowed its definition due to the fact that the state is viewing the LSV as another tool to help improve the environment and our (humans) impact on it. The fact that FL has not allowed gas LSV's should at least help w/ you concerns about noise polution.
 
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Street Legal Carts

Beach Crab
Mar 4, 2010
4
0
I appreciate your viewpoint and you posting your opinions, even if a tad aggressive. A lone voice need not be any louder to be heard on this forum.

I admit to never having thought about LSVs before this thread, or have any knowledge of the statute or what is going on in the rest of Florida.

LSVs seem to make sense in the homogenous environment of a planned community. They don't make nearly as much sense on a 17-mile long county highway connecting diverse communities, many of which aren't LSV friendly.

The green argument holds little water because SoWal is a destination for families in SUVs. Adding LSVs for them after they get here just adds to the drain of raw materials for LSV production, the energy costs of LSV manufacture and operation, and the pollution and land filling disposal of the vehicle at some point in the future.

When SoWal starts getting planned communities for permanent residents, then maybe the green argument will make sense.


Sorry Kurt, but the green argument is valid! Yes the family may come down in a SUV but if we can reduce the emissions in the air produced by that SUV by having it parked for a week we have done good. Some people seem to be forgetting the fragile eco-systems that surround us in Walton County and how detrimental air pollution is to the plant and animal life in the area. Take into consideration that Southern Co. (Gulf Power) is in the beginning processes of converting several of their local power plants to burn bio-mass as opposed to fossil fuels. Combine a "clean power plant" w/ a no emissions vehicle and we have a start to some of our environmental issues.


Robert Davies I have your back! Even though I will catch flack because I have a vested interest in all of this.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,240
9,277
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
This entire debate is summed up in one very simple, common sense idea. And that is: Hwy 30A is a highway with cars, trucks, SUVs, and many out of town drivers, and sometimes it is absolutely congested with motor traffic, bikes and pedestrians on walking path... For the safety of everyone - residents and tourists - keep golf carts, mopeds and anything NOT a real car - off the road.

SAFETY. that is the one and only factor that really needs consideration. I could care less if the speed limit is lowered - maybe it should be in places - for safety reasons. but not to allow carts on the highway - which would only serve to increase danger for everyone.

green is always good. but not at the expense of lives - a big indication that the issue of carts on a highway was never green to start with.
thank you.
 
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