Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[Reggie Gaskins]

While we all appreciates passion and conviction, the discussion must be honest. Can’t be based on lies. There is no “restoring” or “reaffirming” something that was never in existence, ever.

To abuse raw public emotions, purposefully waste $1,000,000’s of other’s money, divide a community, and by definition squander mass public resources and systems in a series of Hail Mary attempts to circumvent the laws of the land, in an attempt to gain local power, in many opinions could be argued as irresponsibly narcissistic.

All the while hiding behind locked gates deliberately keeping the public from “accessing” your private beach, abusing actual beach construction for personal financial gain, posting signs on beach promoting one’s business on beach, and knowingly creating chaos ... backed up with zero discussion.

Things that make ya go hmmmmm.
Sorry, don’t have a cute sticker for all of that.

 

[bob1]

It's so despicable that johnny come latelies claim no one aver stepped on the beach before they leveled the dunes and destroyed the environment to erect their monstrosities.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Tempt you with flowery ideas of metaphysical orgy mixers, it’s so 1960’s.

MALARKEY!

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

....or by the Florida Legislature, or by the people of Florida or by the Supreme Court or by beach nourishment. There are many paths to restoring and reaffirming our beaches will be public. We intend on following whatever paths that will take us there.

More cracks in the CU dam precipitating this comment??

BTW, have to agree with Reggie: beaches were NEVER public except if one believes the illegally first passed customary use ordinance (no judicial process) made them so. At least Dave now admits they are currently private.

How do you restore something that never really was?

 

[Alex Miles]

You got it right the 2nd time. Don't confuse Strawman with Straw Man Btw it takes a straw man to know a straw man don'tcha think? Listen, we could go back and forth like little boys and girls or we can offer civility and truth and honor into an adult conversation. Yes, you have been successful at provoking emotional reactions and we sometimes react because we are not robots. Well done. Bravo (yes just plain bravo). Why is your job here not done? You have valid arguments but go way beyond what is necessary to convey those arguments for some strange reason. You do not have to keep repeating the same things over and over...unless you are getting paid to do it. Surely you guys and gals are not sycophants right? I still believe that we could have a good old fashioned redneck fish fry along with Reggie's special beer and eventually find something to agree on...right?

The vast majority of beach property owners are perfectly happy with sharing their beach. But they're not willing to give up their right to ask someone to leave. Do you see the difference?

A property owner who loses the right of exclusion, essentially loses his property entirely, because...what privilege of ownership would even remain if the right of exclusion is lost? Let's stop trying to redistribute wealth.

If the right of exclusion is not that big a deal, why is the county fighting so hard to take control of it for themselves. Why is the county willing to spend an estimated $50 million dollars in order to secure the right of exclusion for themselves? Especially when the sheriff is already not exercising trespass on the beach, anyway.

Think about it. There's more at stake here. Perhaps there are future plans that many locals may not have considered. But if the county and TDC follows through with their tourist growth plans, you'll likely be none too happy living here anymore. (Then again, more subdivision developments mean more landscaping pine straw demand, more advertising demand on sites like this, more restaurant crowds...Tell me again who the power brokers are?) Please step beyond the beach and see the big, big picture here. (Oh. And thank you for acknowledging that my previous arguments have been valid.)

I am no sycophant. Truth be told, I had to look that word up. I'm just a redneck. We rednecks call it "suck up". My words are my own. I'm not sucking up to anybody. I don't even understand how that would be a motivation for this forum. Maybe I'm not smart enough to be invited to the fish fry after all. I can live with that.

The BPOs are not bad guys for wanting to restrict beach use density on their private property. If you were in their shoes, you would be in the exact same predicament, pushed up against the wall, and forced to hire an attorney, just to hold on to what you rightfully own.

In America, ownership means something.

Happy Thanksgiving

 

[leeboy]

Personally, I would never assume I had the option to exclude people from my property if I couldn't develop it, fence it, or call a cop to remove someone. You can't do any of that on the beach, not really. And one boundary is for sure is always going to be open for people to enter (water).

It's just silly to think you have control of such a situation. And silly for a property owner to buy such a property not knowing what they were getting into. The horse done left that barn yall.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

....or by the Florida Legislature, or by the people of Florida or by the Supreme Court or by beach nourishment. There are many paths to restoring and reaffirming our beaches will be public. We intend on following whatever paths that will take us there.

... NOT or anything your list ... if ancient historical English common law public customary use of American private property is found not Constitutional first. Given Florida state government support protecting BPO private property due-process rights from any Florida County or City government unilaterally declaring unrestricted public use of private property in FS163.035 and your failure predicting 2016 incumbent Commissioner Cindy Meadows reelection (who lost by a 2 to 1 margin to a politically no-experienced "former Mailman Tony Anderson"); even after you admit switched from the Democratic party to the Republican Party to vote for Meadows and back to Democratic party. You admit you spent three years and $40,000 of your own money in a failed effort to incorporate South Walton because you did not understand the people of South Walton aversion to another layer of taxes (and your association with the effort). You stated over and over Walton would become a Ghost Town if CU is not legally enforced against BFO Constitutional property rights and the Walton TDC bed tax collections and real state values have significantly increased since 2016. Visit South Walton, FL
I'm switching parties today! Why not have Non Partisan Elections in Walton County?

#1678 I do not put too much stock in ... Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
MAJOR UPSET IN LOCAL ELECTIONS Walton County Primary Results 2016
#947 I spent nearly $40,000 of my own money ... Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Walton 2016 Primary Election ... Summary Results - Election Night Reporting
#1273 It failed but someday I hope it will happen.... Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Even if IF CU is not found unConstitutional, given your track record of progressive predictions, I do not put much credibility in your belief that if CU fails it will prevail "by the Florida Legislature, or by the people of Florida or by the Supreme Court or by beach nourishment." FL Legislators have spoken in FS163.035, a State Constitutional CU amendment is a dream, Governor DeSantis appointed 3 conservative FL Supreme Court Justices in 2019. SCOTUS has had conservative property rights rulings recently. DeSantis appoints third Florida Supreme Court justice, completing conservative makeover
Supreme Court ruling could impact Walton customary use case

Can anyone find where SCOTUS has ever heard a CU Constitutional case in 243 years? Many BPOs intend to follow the path to affirm American property rights continue to be superior to old English common law all the way to SCOTUS. Talk is cheap. Would you be willing to put $40,000 of your own money in escrow to pay BPO's legal fees should property rights prevail? Did not think so.

"Beach nourishment" or Hurricane Storm Damage Reduction 50 year easements required for any beach fortification failed 94% in 2015 because of Walton's lack of private property easement transparency and bad offshore off color sand. Wouldn't hold your breath on another beach shore fortification. Walton County Board of Commissioners Votes to Table Beach Renourishment Project - Hopping Green & Sams
Talk is cheap. CUnCourt

 

[Stone Cold J]

You are brilliant. Thank you for speaking truth to power.

Does that mean you personally do or don’t believe in legally defined Walton County deeded property boundaries?

WHY it is reasonable to remove property rights from legally deeded private property owners which have NEVER been challenged by the BCC prior to illegal 2016 Beach Ordinance

WHO has shown going to every single parcel in the 26 mile beach from the mean high tide line to the dunes is without interruption (note: there are numerous cases which show this has been interrupted, such as decades old trespassing cases and the 2008 BCC Edgewater Court Order)

WHEN did this issue become WITHOUT DISPUTE as specified in the County Lawsuit of which FBFA (and you as one of their leaders) as a Plaintiff? Do you think this issue is without dispute?

 

[bob1]

... NOT or anything your list ... if ancient historical English common law public customary use of American private property is found not Constitutional first. Given Florida state government support protecting BPO private property due-process rights from any Florida County or City government unilaterally declaring unrestricted public use of private property in FS163.035 and your failure predicting 2016 incumbent Commissioner Cindy Meadows reelection (who lost by a 2 to 1 margin to a politically no-experienced "former Mailman Tony Anderson"); even after you admit switched from the Democratic party to the Republican Party to vote for Meadows and back to Democratic party. You admit you spent three years and $40,000 of your own money in a failed effort to incorporate South Walton because you did not understand the people of South Walton aversion to another layer of taxes (and your association with the effort). You stated over and over Walton would become a Ghost Town if CU is not legally enforced against BFO Constitutional property rights and the Walton TDC bed tax collections and real state values have significantly increased since 2016. Visit South Walton, FL
I'm switching parties today! Why not have Non Partisan Elections in Walton County?

#1678 I do not put too much stock in ... Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
MAJOR UPSET IN LOCAL ELECTIONS Walton County Primary Results 2016
#947 I spent nearly $40,000 of my own money ... Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Walton 2016 Primary Election ... Summary Results - Election Night Reporting
#1273 It failed but someday I hope it will happen.... Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Even if IF CU is not found unConstitutional, given your track record of progressive predictions, I do not put much credibility in your belief that if CU fails it will prevail "by the Florida Legislature, or by the people of Florida or by the Supreme Court or by beach nourishment." FL Legislators have spoken in FS163.035, a State Constitutional CU amendment is a dream, Governor DeSantis appointed 3 conservative FL Supreme Court Justices in 2019. SCOTUS has had conservative property rights rulings recently. DeSantis appoints third Florida Supreme Court justice, completing conservative makeover
Supreme Court ruling could impact Walton customary use case

Can anyone find where SCOTUS has ever heard a CU Constitutional case in 243 years? Many BPOs intend to follow the path to affirm American property rights continue to be superior to old English common law all the way to SCOTUS. Talk is cheap. Would you be willing to put $40,000 of your own money in escrow to pay BPO's legal fees should property rights prevail? Did not think so.

"Beach nourishment" or Hurricane Storm Damage Reduction 50 year easements required for any beach fortification failed 94% in 2015 because of Walton's lack of private property easement transparency and bad offshore off color sand. Wouldn't hold your breath on another beach shore fortification. Walton County Board of Commissioners Votes to Table Beach Renourishment Project - Hopping Green & Sams
Talk is cheap. CUnCourt

Dude. Are you fresh out of law school? This is not a court. We are not impressed.

 

[Alex Miles]

Dude. Are you fresh out of law school? This is not a court. We are not impressed.

Actually, I am impressed. Others are as well.

Florida Beach Bum's fact-based logic is as welcome here in this forum as yours is, if you chose to share any.

Let's not be close-minded when actual facts are thoughtfully presented here. Personal attacks by anti property rights people diminish their arguments even more. Come to think of it...calling the anti property rights' (feeling-based) campaign an "argument" is quite a stretch.

Thank you SoWal for giving both sides of this property rights argument a platform to share the facts! Happy Thanksgiving!