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Allifunn

FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
Jan 11, 2006
13,636
288
St Petersburg
There is nothing more rewarding than listening to, adding to, and reading (in the case of this board) a lively, interesting and worthwhile discussion. Feeling passtionate about a subject is a quality that I find attractive in a person. Much of the dialogue contained in this thread has passion, but it lacks the tolerance, compassion and understanding that substantiates true conviction. Intensity without justification is simply meaningless rhetoric. Just my opinion.
 

yippie

Beach Fanatic
Oct 28, 2005
946
42
A local
This is a clear case of the "Have's" and the "Have Not's"

I "have" a home that is safe from collaspe
BMBV "has not"!
 

CastlesOfSand

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
2,488
25
Allifunn said:
There is nothing more rewarding than listening to, adding to, and reading (in the case of this board) a lively, interesting and worthwhile discussion. Feeling passtionate about a subject is a quality that I find attractive in a person. Much of the dialogue contained in this thread has passion, but it lacks the tolerance, compassion and understanding that substantiates true conviction. Intensity without justification is simply meaningless rhetoric. Just my opinion.

Nicely put, Allifunn.
 

John R

needs to get out more
Dec 31, 2005
6,777
819
Conflictinator
thanks dave, for that excellent resource. it appears that the proof is in the pudding. it would be great if our county commissioners had had a chance to see those photos. eventually the taxpayers will be footing the bill for beach sand being brought in from some source.

jr
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
P3210127.JPG


I don't think this seawall will work without the neighbors continuing it down the beach.
 

John R

needs to get out more
Dec 31, 2005
6,777
819
Conflictinator
from the sierra club,

http://ventana.sierraclub.org/back_issues/0303/seawalls.shtml

The Trouble with Seawalls | by Owen Bailey


" For centuries we have treated the oceans? bounty as limitless and beyond our capacity to deplete. We have treated wetlands as wastelands, and rivers and streams as conduits for our pollution. The evidence of our neglect and mismanagement is before us. The question now is: What do we do about it?"

-Leon E. Panetta, Washington Post, May 21, 2003


Pleasure Point
Pleasure Point would receive ?full bluff armoring? if the Army Corps of Engineers and Santa Cruz County get their way.
The construction of seawalls is one of the most controversial and misunderstood environmental issues on the California coastline today. Our state is known world-wide for its graceful and majestic beaches. However, developers and property owners alike have continued to build far too close to the edge of shoreline bluffs, in spite of the Coastal Act. As the land under coastal homes, roads and businesses naturally erodes, one of the most often employed actions is the reinforcing of the cliff wall. Seawall construction is a major contributor to the disappearance of the very beaches we all treasure.

Oftentimes, public money is used to protect private structures.

Such steps to protect private property are often taken without consideration of the public land below. Seawalls and boulders not only diminish public access to beaches and obliterate pocket beaches, they disrupt the natural processes that replenish beach sand.

Beaches naturally refresh themselves in several ways. Silt from rivers gets deposited on the beach, and the crumbling of shoreline cliffs provides a source of new sand. Dammed and diverted rivers have greatly reduced the amount of sand flowing toward beaches. Armoring of the coast virtually eliminates the cliffs as a source of sand and also deprives cliff-nesting birds of essential habitat.

Seawalls multiply with time. As the wall or boulders deflect the waves, embankment erosion is simply directed to either side of the seawall increasing erosion on flanking cliffs, where neighboring property owners decide that they too, need seawalls. Thus the cycle expands.

The California Coastal Act permits the construction of seawalls for ?existing structures.? This wording has created a loophole that has been exploited to the detriment of our beaches. Coastal construction is currently allowed so long as the new building is set back sufficiently from the cliff so as to not require reinforcement for 75 years. However, once the building is erected, it then can be considered an existing structure and the property owner can then come back to the Coastal Commission the next year or even the next week and claim that the erosion situation requires a seawall.

The numbers are worrisome. In 1971, 25 miles of California coast were covered in shoreline armor. By 1990 (latest data) more than 130 miles of the coast were encased in seawalls. Thirty percent of the Santa Cruz County coastline is already hidden behind seawalls.

Oregon, Texas, North and South Carolina and New Jersey ban construction of new seawalls outright. In California, where 80% of our immense population lives less than 30 miles from the coast, our seawall policy is tipped toward armoring the coast. We need legislation to close the loophole in the Coastal Act to stop the rapid construction of structures that are detrimental to our beaches. The California Coastal Act intended seawalls to be built as a last resort. The use of seawalls as our default policy in a vain attempt to control geologic processes has proven disastrous. We must provide our Coastal Commission with the tools to save our beaches.

California beaches generate $19 billion/year from tourism and special events. These beaches must be protected.
 

pgurney

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
587
66
ATL & Seacrest
BMBV, No I'm not from GaTech...some other school.

Regarding my not being a fan of seawalls: I work in the environmental sector and I'm not a fan of a lot of the things we humans do to the earth. :bang:

Regarding your offer of the video during Dennis: Thanks, I'd like to see it out of general interest, but those were the conditions during Dennis and probably don't reflect the conditions for which a seawall should be designed for. Others may like to see it as well...perhaps there is a place it could be hosted on-line?

Smiling Joe, you asked "How are the majority of people stuck in this mess of seawalls supposed to know what the heck you two are talking about?" What I've been trying to find out is what a lot of the posters here already surmised without the need of the technical jargon...that some portion of these walls will fail in a decent sized storm. I'm not speaking of BMBV's wall when I say this, but from what I'm hearing here it sounds like a lot of them weren't designed to meet the requirements for a permanent permit and by my understanding of the Florida statutes they should be removed. Actually, the law that allows the temporary structures also recognizes that they are for emergency conditions and requires them to be removed within 60 days of initially being constructed unless a permanent permit is applied for.

My biggest hope right now is that we get a several year reprieve from Mother Nature, this is truly a mess.
 

kathydwells

Darlene is my middle name, not my nickname
Dec 20, 2004
13,310
418
62
Lacey's Spring, Alabama
Kurt, SJ. I have read this thread with interest because of the fact that my beloved Seagrove Villa's and Motel installed a seawall. I know SJ, that you are NOT a fan of them. If what they say is true and they destroy the beaches, than I have to admit I am not a fan either. However, given the shape that the Villa's were in after last year's storms, in your opinion did they have any other choice but to install one? I am just curious as to what other options they had. They have been there a long, long time and perhaps it was the only way of saving the Villa's. I don't know, that is why I am asking. Also, you took pictures of the seawall that was installed. In your opinions was it installed to standards that have been discussed in this thread? Is the sand covering it acceptable as to the grade of sand used? I know these questions may be hard to answer, but I have just been worried since all of this discussion about seawalls, and I knew that the Villas had installed one. Thanks in advance!!!!!!!
 

Kurt

Admin
Staff member
Oct 15, 2004
2,268
4,944
SoWal
mooncreek.com
kathydwells said:
Kurt, SJ. I have read this thread with interest because of the fact that my beloved Seagrove Villa's and Motel installed a seawall. I know SJ, that you are NOT a fan of them. If what they say is true and they destroy the beaches, than I have to admit I am not a fan either. However, given the shape that the Villa's were in after last year's storms, in your opinion did they have any other choice but to install one? I am just curious as to what other options they had. They have been there a long, long time and perhaps it was the only way of saving the Villa's. I don't know, that is why I am asking. Also, you took pictures of the seawall that was installed. In your opinions was it installed to standards that have been discussed in this thread? Is the sand covering it acceptable as to the grade of sand used? I know these questions may be hard to answer, but I have just been worried since all of this discussion about seawalls, and I knew that the Villas had installed one. Thanks in advance!!!!!!!

Everyone has only a few choices. Do nothing. Sell and pass the problem on. Bring in sand to rebuild dunes and planet vegetation. Build a seawall or install tubes. I'm guessing that a seawall seemed like the best option for SV.

Only time will tell if they, and others, made the right choice.

I didn't see all the sand they used but the top layer seemed to be up to standard. One of the photos I took had long bolts sticking out of the sand and the corners of their wall were exposed. I haven't seen it lately. They may have brought in more sand. Also, the corners may have been left exposed so that neighbors could tie in.
 

kathydwells

Darlene is my middle name, not my nickname
Dec 20, 2004
13,310
418
62
Lacey's Spring, Alabama
kurt said:
Everyone has only a few choices. Do nothing. Sell and pass the problem on. Bring in sand to rebuild dunes and planet vegetation. Build a seawall or install tubes. I'm guessing that a seawall seemed like the best option for SV.

Only time will tell if they, and others, made the right choice.

I didn't see all the sand they used but the top layer seemed to be up to standard. One of the photos I took had long bolts sticking out of the sand and the corners of their wall were exposed. I haven't seen it lately. They may have brought in more sand. Also, the corners may have been left exposed so that neighbors could tie in.

Thank you Kurt for your response. I guess you are right and only time will tell. We can only hope that Mother Nature will be kind to the area this year, to give it more time to heal.

Thanks again!
 
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