Seawalls

[ecopal]

I watched the construction of the Seagrove Village wall. They built their seawall about 30 feet out in front of the bluff line after the county had encouraged all seawall builders to construct their walls as close to the dwellings as possible. A contractor friend of mine said they built it twice as far out onto the beach than they needed to.

As a result they may theoretically have more problem getting it permanently permitted from environmental agencies and maybe more prone to be fined for excessive ?take? of beach habitat.

By building it farther than they needed they have increased the chance that their wall could interfere with beach habitat, beach self replenishment, and increase the probability it will contribute to beach erosion. Also ironically they have increased the likely hood that it will be destroyed in the next big storm.

When they initially started back filling the seawall they were using dark red sand and the county made them remove it and put white sand in.
As a result their seawall is filled and covered with nice sand.

Unfortunately their neighbor down wind to the east (property on Montgomery Street) apparently successfully pressured the county to allow them to use dark sand and some of it has been contaminating the SGVilla?s white sand.

Also, that same property to your east is installing geotubes. They have dug a deep and wide trench into the subsurface of the beach and as a result may have destabilized the beach foundation and probably made it more prone to erosion. Also their massive digging has created quite a mess on the beach and in the water.

Below is a picture Seagrove Beach Villa's neighbor installing their geotubes-this is currently going on.
Click on picture to enlarge it:

 

[TooFarTampa]

Excuse me while I

 

[Beachlover2]

That is just sad.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I watched the construction of the Seagrove Village wall. They built their seawall about 30 feet out in front of the bluff line after the county had encouraged all seawall builders to construct their walls as close to the dwellings as possible. A contractor friend of mine said they built it twice as far out onto the beach than they needed to.

From my observation, most people erecting the seawalls, erected the walls at or near the location which their yard once extended. However, it is my understanding that the only reason the 60 day temporary permits for the seawalls were issued was to save the improvements from further damage, which does not include rebuilding the yard. One homeowner in Blue Mtn Bch has recently been issued a Stop Work Order for removing vegetation without a permit. I don't know what good it did because it was after the fact and now that back yard is all sand, at least 40 ft of it, with no plants in sight.

 

[skippertoo]

Below is a picture Seagrove Beach Villa's neighbor installing their geotubes-this is currently going on.(quote)

 

[ecopal]

Below is a picture take with telephoto from the Greenwood Ave beach access to the west-the same vantage point as previous picture.

It shows workers in the foreground jumping on the tubes to squeeze out the excess muddy water from the mud/sand slurry being pumped into the tubes.

This muddy water is then pumped into the Gulf.

In the background is the Seagrove Villa's beach and walkway.

Note the nice white sand at Seagrove Villas in comparison to the darker sand the Montgomery Street owners are using.

(please click on picture to make larger)

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

There is nothing more rewarding than listening to, adding to, and reading (in the case of this board) a lively, interesting and worthwhile discussion. Feeling passtionate about a subject is a quality that I find attractive in a person. Much of the dialogue contained in this thread has passion, but it lacks the tolerance, compassion and understanding that substantiates true conviction. Intensity without justification is simply meaningless rhetoric. Just my opinion.

I'm baaaaaaacccckkk



I admit, Allifunn, that you're absolutely right regarding your post above.
Yep, I said it. I apologize for some of the posts (maybe not all - read on). You've brought out the "softie" in me.

I will cease with the pepper spray, if others can do the same, especially for the sake of the "bystanders".

Truce.


I have been only trying to get two main points across within this thread titled "Seawalls":

1. Not all retaining walls will fail after a category 3 hurricane as so many posters have predicted.

2. Many GF owners have no choice but to install a retaining wall in the immediate term to protect their property from imminent collapse (if allowed by the county and Florida DEP). Financial obligation to one's self and family dictates this. Period.

Some tolerant posters actually exchanged good ideas and observations about item #1. Perhaps it got too detailed and technical for this thread. But that was somewhat intentional...to show that there was thought put in to the selection, design and installation of our retaining wall (probably not all) as opposed to some structures thrown up that even I, yes me, agree will be destroyed with the next hurricane. Heck, it might not even take a hurricane for some.

Regarding item #2 and the main reason I started posting so much on this thread is that I will not tolerate any verbage attacking and inferring that it is the fault of GF owners' for the situation we're in today regarding erosion and retaining walls.

The situation is FAR too complex for this SIMPLE assumption. There is one fact that I think we can agree on... there was erosion before man, and there's erosion during man and there will be erosion after man. (I mean man and woman!!)

Let's extrapolate a little....let's say I agree to demolish my building and hand over my land because I'm a real nice guy and the pressure from some of you has convinced me that it is the right thing to do.

Now without any armoring or renourishment, what stops the erosion process? Dennis eroded about 15 to 20 feet of land (beyond Ivan and Opal). Dennis's brother could do the same thing in a year. Their sister could repeat that the following year.

Now the erosion line is approaching first tier property owners and all these same problems simply resurface.

How far back from the shoreline is practical? In the spirit of this post, please understand that this is rhetorical question.

With that said, there is only one real solution economically and I believe most of you know what it is. Hint...they're doing it as we speak. Many of you have actually mentioned and supported it.

That said, I also highly support beach (re)nourishment as it's being executed now.

But do I NOT put up a retaining wall anyway since it looks like we'll eventually get beach nourshiment ourselves? The only problem with that idea is time. As Kurt pointed out in one of his posts, it took the renourishment "project" about about 3 years to occur (from inception to legal, financial, finding source of sand, and finally implementation). I and many others personally can't wait another 3 years as the odds are stacked against me (my property would most likely be destroyed by then based on what happened in the last couple of years and what is predicted in the future).

Some people wanted to put up a new permanent retaining wall in the Mirimar Beach area, but were told they couldn't because beach renourishment was going to occur within a few months in their area (DEP's logic is that beach nourishment would alleviate the need for armoring - and that's understood).


Regards to all.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

NOTE to all as an FYI - John R knows how to quote and respond properly.

Kurt, I sure hope like hell you mean from a technical standpoint.

But I think I do know what you mean.

Kurt and SJ....I'm still trying to figure an easy way to snip part of a post and make it a quote without going through some of the manual keystroking... is there an easier way? The "long" way is apparent by typing the "QUOTE.." header and trailer.

If I figure out an easier way, John R, you better look out! Kurt will also say my responses are proper.

No attacks here, just a little levity. Really.

Thanks

 

[Smiling JOe]

But do I NOT put up a retaining wall anyway since it looks like we'll eventually get beach nourshiment ourselves? The only problem with that idea is time. As Kurt pointed out in one of his posts, it took the renourishment "project" about about 3 years to occur (from inception to legal, financial, finding source of sand, and finally implementation). I and many others personally can't wait another 3 years as the odds are stacked against me (my property would most likely be destroyed by then based on what happened in the last couple of years and what is predicted in the future).

During a recent conversation with Brad Pickle, I discovered that it actually took seven years from inception to current date. :shock: --not that it matters, either way, it is a long @ss time.

 

[TooFarTampa]

During a recent conversation with Brad Pickle, I discovered that it actually took seven years from inception to current date. :shock: --not that it matters, either way, it is a long @ss time.

Which takes longer, sand fencing or renourishment?